Quote:
49 minutes ago, Bartender said:
I personally don't see any adequate solution to make the chains work together in an acceptable way.
The mod kit is very limited by the fact that you can only control the output of production through the resource, not the building. This means it is very difficult to blend two mods with different production styles as you said, because balancing is all but impossible with this method. It is also very easy to break another chain, like I did with <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> charcoal [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/cool.png[/img]/emoticons/cool@2x.png 2x" title="B|" width="20" /> .
At the end of the day, my advise would be to stay true to your course and make your mod the way you want it to be. Modding is after all a personal thing and we all have our own ideas of what we want the game to be. If when all is said and done it fits well with another mod, by all means make the link, if not well, as long as it doesn't break any other chains, then it isn't a problem. Duplicate resources can easily be managed by being careful when naming things. There is always the option of making a cross over version of the mods, like Kidd made a Forest Outpost Nat Div edition. I was thinking of making some 'RedNec' mods (I trade mark the name because I think it is cool [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/wink@2x.png 2x" title=";)" width="20" /> ), versions of mine that fit perfectly with some of <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/3183-ketchup/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="3183" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/3183-ketchup/">@ Ketchup</a> mods where the two could. An example would be a RedNec Crystal Cliffs that is a re-designed crystal cliffs chains using Red's fodder... I can't do it as is now because the chains are built differently, but it would work as a different version.
Some Natural Martimes Diversity versions of my mods might be in order in the future, we'll see what you come up with!
you could do a building that processes grass to fodder as an add-on mod. you could also expand on RED's idea and make a dairy barn that produces milk and fertilizer from the grass.or even use sheep and give wool and fertilizer.the fertilizer then could be used at RED's greenhouses. RED did change his production numbers.it has been lowered a lot,more than i expected. finding a solution that hits somewhere between huis old and new outputs would not throw the balance off far.
on another note. i was reading on some other older mods yesterday. my understanding is the game creates the map in layers. lays down the stone,then iron, then the trees. i think it said there are 3 different layers. can it be forced to lay down 4 or 5? the 4th being your plants and the 5th being another set of trees or older trees? i got that by reading about the old growth forests mod.
https://banishedinfo.com/mods/view/286-O...th-Forests i was trying to come up with a way to make spots of forests with thicker growth. not sure if it will be helpful. you and NECORA's pine mod stop the other 1 from working.
<a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/8298-stiles/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="8298" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/8298-stiles/">@ stiles</a> I actually really like that idea, having an old growth forest along with a newer one and meadows.
It could be 1 - stone, 2 - iron, 3 - trees, 4 - nat div meadows, 5 - old growth stands. That might be a bit too much for a small map, I don't know.
The reason it would be cool though is that you could have new tree models for the old growth, including fewer big trees and also dead trees (typical of old growth forest). This is ideal habitat for a lot of animals, so you could concentrate trapping resources here as well as mushrooms. Then in the new growth forests you have more berries and things.
While I am at it, <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/11115-bartender/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="11115" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/11115-bartender/">@ Bartender</a> could I see how you made the reeds only spawn by the river? I want to make the beaver lodge and fiddleheads only spawn on river/lake banks.
05-14-2017, 11:35 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-14-2017, 11:36 AM by Bartender.)
Quote:
On 13-5-2017 at 2:21 PM, Necora said:
The mod kit is very limited by the fact that you can only control the output of production through the resource, not the building. This means it is very difficult to blend two mods with different production styles as you said, because balancing is all but impossible with this method. It is also very easy to break another chain, like I did with <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> charcoal [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/cool.png[/img]/emoticons/cool@2x.png 2x" title="B|" width="20" /> .
At the end of the day, my advise would be to stay true to your course and make your mod the way you want it to be. Modding is after all a personal thing and we all have our own ideas of what we want the game to be. If when all is said and done it fits well with another mod, by all means make the link, if not well, as long as it doesn't break any other chains, then it isn't a problem. Duplicate resources can easily be managed by being careful when naming things. There is always the option of making a cross over version of the mods, like Kidd made a Forest Outpost Nat Div edition. I was thinking of making some 'RedNec' mods (I trade mark the name because I think it is cool [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/wink@2x.png 2x" title=";)" width="20" /> ), versions of mine that fit perfectly with some of <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/3183-ketchup/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="3183" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/3183-ketchup/">@Ketchup</a> mods where the two could. An example would be a RedNec Crystal Cliffs that is a re-designed crystal cliffs chains using Red's fodder... I can't do it as is now because the chains are built differently, but it would work as a different version.
Some Natural Martimes Diversity versions of my mods might be in order in the future, we'll see what you come up with!
I completely agree with this. In the end we're all trying to shape the game in our own way, and we shouldn't be scared of doing so if we're shaping it into something else than another modder did.
I agree that cross-over versions and mod collections are perhaps the best way to overcome these differences, as the original mod can stay 'pure' in that way.
Quote:
On 13-5-2017 at 6:10 PM, stiles said:
you could do a building that processes grass to fodder as an add-on mod. you could also expand on RED's idea and make a dairy barn that produces milk and fertilizer from the grass.or even use sheep and give wool and fertilizer.the fertilizer then could be used at RED's greenhouses. RED did change his production numbers.it has been lowered a lot,more than i expected. finding a solution that hits somewhere between huis old and new outputs would not throw the balance off far.
on another note. i was reading on some other older mods yesterday. my understanding is the game creates the map in layers. lays down the stone,then iron, then the trees. i think it said there are 3 different layers. can it be forced to lay down 4 or 5? the 4th being your plants and the 5th being another set of trees or older trees? i got that by reading about the old growth forests mod.
https://banishedinfo.com/mods/view/286-O...th-Forests i was trying to come up with a way to make spots of forests with thicker growth. not sure if it will be helpful. you and NECORA's pine mod stop the other 1 from working.
For the moment I personally don't really feel like there would be much to gain from redoing Red's work, so if anything it would be something like an add-on or a cross-over version indeed [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/wink@2x.png 2x" title=";)" width="20" />.
The idea of an old growth forest is definitely an interesting one, it adds realism and even more diversity to the environment. I have thought about it before, since OwlChemist is no longer actively modding we can't expect him to update his mods to work with everything that's coming out now, but there's some good ideas and it would be a shame to lose them. For the moment I didn't try my luck on trees yet, but it's something I definitely want to do at some point.
Quote:
On 13-5-2017 at 6:16 PM, Necora said:
While I am at it, <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/11115-bartender/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="11115" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/11115-bartender/">@Bartender</a> could I see how you made the reeds only spawn by the river? I want to make the beaver lodge and fiddleheads only spawn on river/lake banks.
Making things spawn lower is done simply by changing the range with the minHeight and maxHeight, but there's a catch.. It only works for resources that are spawned through the StartConditions.rsc, and only for their initial spawning behaviour. The problem is that for reseeding or for secondary spawning (through another resource) the game seems to completely ignore the min and maxheight settings; it just places them between 0.0 and 1.0 by default. This is really a big flaw in the coding if you ask me. For the reeds, we had to turn off reseeding and make them everliving. We also had lots of problems finding a way to make a reed farm in a realistic way, though we did find something in the end.
Another issue that you have to take into account is that all tiles below 0.0 are marked as 'water' or 'deepwater'. If you set the minheight too low, the resource may be spawned in places that are unreachable for the bannies. For the reeds, I set minHeight to -0.7 and maxHeight to -0.1, which seems to be fine.
05-16-2017, 02:08 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-16-2017, 02:14 PM by Bartender.)
<b>It's tuesday already, so we're starting to run a bit behind schedule.. here's Sneak Peek #5!</b>
This past week has been a week of a variety of things, and yet of nothing in particular. It was a week of bushes, boats, bridges, brainstorms about biofuels, and branches. There were other things, such as rocks, reeds and raw materials, but their names did not fit well into the last sentence. Other than arranging the words according to their first letter, we are afraid that there is not much of a theme to discover in this week’s sneak peek. In absence of such a common denominator, we will resort to simply showing you whatever is close enough to completion to be shared.
<b>The reed farm</b>
My honourable colleague <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/12323-despo20/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="12323" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/12323-despo20/">@ despo20</a> has spent most of this week working on the next part of the reeds and grasses chain; the as of yet unnamed reed farm. Due to limitations in the game code regarding the spawning of resources on the river banks, we spent a long time testing various possibilities for this building. In the end, we decided that the most realistic and historically accurate approach was to go for a boat on the small river, with a bridge connecting the two shores. The building functions similarly to a forester, planting and harvesting reeds in an influence area along the river banks. The associated profession will be a reaper, similarly to the reaper’s shed that gathers grasses. The gathered reeds can be processed by the thatcher or be used for the construction of fish traps. They will also be compatible with the reeds introduced in <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr>.
[img]<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2017_05/ReedFarm1.jpg.88fc38d17be7011b79963a05f7da17d8.jpg[/img]
[img]<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2017_05/ReedFarm2.jpg.dfad6935af0d268b37dd2242737d1dc9.jpg[/img]
<b>Alternative Rocks</b>
A few weeks ago I have shown some images of rocks in the rivers. This week, we have worked to create suitable meshes and textures for these water rocks. In the process, we have decided to kill two birds with one stone (or two flies in one slap as we say in Dutch), and start an overhaul of the rocks on land as well.
The state of diversity in the original rocks is rather appaling; there are only three meshes and they all have a bland, low-quality grey texture. To improve this, we have done several things; I have created (and am still creating) many different meshes, currently a total of 8, to allow for more diversity. Meanwhile, Despo has created several new rock textures with increasing amounts of moss/algal growth on them, for some colour variation. Lastly, a trick in the coding allows us to spawn each mesh at several different sizes, multiplying the number of variants we can create.
The result of this is that with just these 8 meshes, we have managed to create 12 unique variants for the water rocks (flat meshes with heavy algal growth textures only), and 36 unique variants for the land rocks (all meshes, with low and medium moss growth textures), a selection of which is shown in the second screenshot.
<a class="ipsAttachLink ipsAttachLink_image" data-fileid="2350" href="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2017_05/Rocks2.png.218a03f352e066351093946246763660.png">[img]<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2017_05/Rocks2.thumb.png.7d59a5b2f827b50fc3fb8ac164ca60b8.png[/img]</a>
<a class="ipsAttachLink ipsAttachLink_image" data-fileid="2351" href="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2017_05/Rocks.png.b4f7938c7cad0b04e89b0f5dcaa379dc.png">[img]<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2017_05/Rocks.thumb.png.f36e7d2b4e0bf0b386162f61eebce9b2.png[/img]</a>
<b>That concludes this week’s preview!</b> We’ve been working on many other things in the past weeks, including the things we mentioned at the start of this post but didn’t show. We are not quite ready to share those, but they will be shown in subsequent sneak peeks!
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On 5/13/2017 at 9:23 PM, Bartender said:
<a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/9529-queryeverything/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="9529" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/9529-queryeverything/">@QueryEverything</a> Being a highschool teacher, I know from experience that it never hurts to explain something twice [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/wink@2x.png 2x" title=";)" width="20" />. Or thrice for some students. And frice(?).. fourice(?).. four times for the extremely forgetful ones.
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I can certainly see the highschool teacher, and poet, in your post today <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/11115-bartender/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="11115" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/11115-bartender/">@ Bartender</a>[img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/smile.png[/img]/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x" title=":)" width="20" />
Both you & <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/12323-despo20/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="12323" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/12323-despo20/">@ despo20</a> have done an amazing amount of work, and Despo, I must say, I love those ground rocks! They're pretty awesome.
So much can be gained in this game with even just the smallest of details, thank you for your update!! [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/smile.png[/img]/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x" title=":)" width="20" />
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It was a week of bushes, boats, bridges, brainstorms about biofuels, and branches. There were other things, such as rocks, reeds and raw materials, but their names did not fit well into the last sentence.<span> </span>
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Love that ... almost could've made it a little poem [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/smile.png[/img]/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x" title=":)" width="20" />
Thanks <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/9529-queryeverything/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="9529" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/9529-queryeverything/">@ QueryEverything</a>!
My friend <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/11115-bartender/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="11115" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/11115-bartender/">@ Bartender</a> is a poet indeed! I love his Sneak Peeks! They make it look like what we do even more beautiful [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/biggrin.png[/img]/emoticons/biggrin@2x.png 2x" title=":D" width="20" />
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15 hours ago, Bartender said:
kill two birds with one stone (or two flies in one slap as we say in Dutch)
In Italy we say: take two pigeons with a bean [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/laugh.png[/img]/emoticons/laugh@2x.png 2x" title="xD" width="20" />
Haha, thank you [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/smile.png[/img]/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x" title=":)" width="20" />! I wouldn't concider myself much of a poet, especially not in english, but I do enjoy writing a lot. One day I'll be good enough to publish some things [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/tongue.png[/img]/emoticons/tongue@2x.png 2x" title=":P" width="20" />.
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46 minutes ago, despo20 said:
In Italy we say: take two pigeons with a bean [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/laugh.png[/img]/emoticons/laugh@2x.png 2x" title="xD" width="20" />
I like that one, at least no animals are harmed that way [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/biggrin.png[/img]/emoticons/biggrin@2x.png 2x" title=":D" width="20" />!
I hope so too, but probably the purpose is to catch them to eat them [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/ph34r.png[/img]/emoticons/ph34r@2x.png 2x" title=":ph34r:" width="20" /> [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/laugh.png[/img]/emoticons/laugh@2x.png 2x" title="xD" width="20" />
It has been well over a week since our last update, so <b>Sneak Peek #6 </b>is long overdue!
<b></b>
<b></b>
<b></b><i>The crowd: “</i>You’re late!”
<i>Me: </i>“A coding wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.”
Due to real life activities I am personally a bit short on time at the moment, but for the past two weeks @ despo20 and I have been working hard on several parts of the mod. We will present these to you, and we have an announcement to make, so bear with us!
<b>The completion of the basic Grasses & Reeds Production Chain</b>
[img]<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2017_05/1.jpg.63d273fbee059953a3b5415d76b7f023.jpg[/img][img]<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2017_05/2.jpg.3d4178b2d084c9019871967c0351fc83.jpg[/img]
[img]<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2017_05/3.jpg.e28ca600fdc791b19e6e9a976b2b77e1.jpg[/img][img]<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2017_05/4.jpg.f9ff0a5f0e490f4fc838b685788f8b7c.jpg[/img]
The last new building of our production chain, the fish trap, has been completed. It can be constructed on small streams, and requires wood and reed to be built. It is meant as a cheap fishing option that doesn’t require thatch. It also has a durability tied to the amount of fish caught, after which the trap breaks and needs to be rebuilt.
[img]<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2017_05/1.jpg.f2e72ab81ea71785c90ae4701fd75025.jpg[/img][img]<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2017_05/2.jpg.2bbd310e4360257a90d3134f8de49222.jpg[/img]
[img]<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2017_05/3.jpg.5d3cf86bac4b924dccfb1916b6d77378.jpg[/img]
As <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/12323-despo20/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="12323" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/12323-despo20/">@ despo20</a> has designed so many wonderful new buildings for this chain, we felt that my old model for the Thatcher didn’t quite fit in anymore. Therefore, it has received a completely new design, in the same style as the Reaper’s Shed that we’ve shown before. This updated version will utilize grass bales or reed bundles to produce thatch.
And with that, our basic chain is completed! We already have quite a few plans for expansion, but this is what we’ll be releasing first. Here’s a complete flowchart of the chain:
<a class="ipsAttachLink ipsAttachLink_image" href="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2017_06/593035382b7b0_NatDivchains.jpg.8ed6ef8d9fce2b6d995688ebaa063b09.jpg" data-fileid="2541">[img]<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2017_06/5930353c26a54_NatDivchains.thumb.jpg.14b5ab63c026f72af02a2a3f9482400b.jpg[/img]</a>
<b>Rebellious Crops</b>
<b></b>
<b></b>
[img]<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2017_05/RebelliousCrops.thumb.png.f5e73a72750cc0c16ee9fb05c65fc2ae.png[/img]
Based on an excellent suggestion by <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/9529-queryeverything/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="9529" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/9529-queryeverything/">@ QueryEverything</a>, we have decided to revive an outdated mod made by OwlChemist, who is unfortunately no longer active as a modder for Banished. His ‘Pesky Produce’ mod made crops and orchard trees have a slight chance of seeding outside of their fields. This is highly realistic behaviour (plants tend not to care about artificial boundaries), and therefore fits perfectly with our goal of Natural Diversity. The crops growing outside of the fields can be harvested with a new ‘clear foods’ and the regular ‘clear trees’ toolbar buttons.
<b>Version 1.1 release</b>
With our basic production chain finished, we have decided to start moving towards the release of NatDiv version 1.1! Everything we’ve shown so far will be included in the new version, along with some other tiny things we didn’t show yet. A full list of all the new and updated features will follow. The coming week(s) we will focus on polishing and testing, after which we will release an open Beta to let you have a taste and for us to gather your highly valuable feedback!
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