Economy breaking structures in 1.7

[stiles]

LOL,RED i thought you had enough to do. you really want to redo the <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> mod too?or just break it apart more?

[Ketchup]

i was joking Stiles [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/smile.png[/img]/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x" title=":)" width="20" /> it was not for breaking apart <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> ! it was about to integrate some of the products recipes in the already existent buildings ^^

[QueryEverything]

On 6/20/2017 at 10:29 AM, Jonathan Ford said:




The pens should require some sort of input of food. Maybe grain. As you couldn't possibly feed the animals on such a tiny block of land. 

 

On 6/21/2017 at 9:26 AM, stiles said:




te fodder and perfume use water like craxy now. there is also more leather products by EB. i agree these pens can be overused.i only use them in like a fort setting where it is limited for space. thatch has different options coming in the next update.i would like to see RED expand the fodder to a dairy barn to produce milk and fertilizer.i think a combination of thatch and fodder and mayb a grain might be a good option for  a future fodder field mod.i do know at the moment RED has his hands full with the <abbr title="New Medieval Town">NMT</abbr> upgrade.




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I'm going to answer this for both <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/17650-jonathan-ford/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="17650" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/17650-jonathan-ford/">@Jonathan Ford</a> & <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/8298-stiles/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="8298" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/8298-stiles/">@stiles</a>/Brads ("i agree these pens can be overused"), I've answered with my thoughts previously, but want to throw them back out here again.




In my NSHO, no, for these specific pens, no, adding additional requirements isn't going to game balance, if anything, it would feel more like a penalty, when you add the maths, it can take a bit to get started, especially if you don't have a resource rich starting map that has a lot of Domesticated Animals and grains for planting.




Working on the basis of no Domesticated Animals & no grains (which I normally get stuck with - occasionally wheat or corn, normally beans and cabbage, and no I don't use a <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> start, so no DA's).




Build trading post;

build the right stable; (often times more than 1 until matching the stable with the first available grain that comes);

wait for the right trader to come along;

trade 4000 (or x Value the trader brings it in on) on the right seed  and/or;

trade (200*4)*6= 4800 of the correct grain type + additional for 'missing' grain, if inedible mods aren't installed;


That's not taking into consideration the deeper costs:  the food for each of:  traders & farmers; then their tools & clothing etc




I know on the surface these small pens seem extremely overpowered (to some), I don't think they are, it can take a huge amount of time and effort to getting 2 running, let alone 2 of each up and running.  Last time I used a <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> start, I ended up with only 3 DAs and I cleared 1/4 map, it was going to be faster to build a trader.




As for the comment about the size, I can keep a sheep on a small backyard piece of land and she gives me a lovely lush (albeit tatty, haha) fleece every year, and our neighbours keep an abundance of chickens, sheep & goats in a small area, not tiny - but certainly small, and it's all legal.  




 

4 hours ago, Ketchup said:




i was joking Stiles [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/smile.png[/img]/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x" title=":)" width="20" /> it was not for breaking apart <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> ! it was about to integrate some of the products recipes in the already existent buildings ^^

This idea I could get behind.




Introduce (merge perhaps, into) a new production chain where both the <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr>/<abbr title="MegaMod">MM</abbr> elements are used with <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/3183-ketchup/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="3183" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/3183-ketchup/">@Ketchup</a> (& possibly <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/11115-bartender/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="11115" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/11115-bartender/">@Bartender</a>'s grass, where they eventually meet into the middle, and Red is then able to progress the food chain perhaps) to create an animal pen situation - using the ideas that <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> have (with them letting Red use the code as a base), and he build a new building that uses his existing production chain - so, essentially taking the 2 different chains (possibly 3 from Bartender's), and making a new one.




It would be far more balanced, and easier to use straight away on a new map, without having to wait for years for a trader OR for the right crop, and not run as a deficit to food growth in the interim.

[Jonathan Ford]

 <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/9529-queryeverything/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="9529" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/9529-queryeverything/">@QueryEverything</a> You can purchase domesticated animals from the merchants for ~312 each (ordered) so shouldn't be too hard to set up before you get your grain/stable up and running. I guess for another economy breaking structure you could go for heaps of stack burners. They seem to provide the best time to profit ratio. Plus ordered logs are still only value 2. I guess hauling all those logs about might take some time though. 

[Ketchup]

but maybe a bit bigger footprint can reduce the amount of farms and would fix it.




 




i dont know how big they are ... but if for example they are 4x4 ... at 6x6 it would reduce the number of farms, and that way , reduce the output.

[QueryEverything]

3 hours ago, Jonathan Ford said:




 <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/9529-queryeverything/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="9529" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/9529-queryeverything/">@QueryEverything</a> You can purchase domesticated animals from the merchants for ~312 each (ordered) so shouldn't be too hard to set up before you get your grain/stable up and running. I guess for another economy breaking structure you could go for heaps of stack burners. They seem to provide the best time to profit ratio. Plus ordered logs are still only value 2. I guess hauling all those logs about might take some time though. 

<a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/17650-jonathan-ford/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="17650" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/17650-jonathan-ford/">@Jonathan Ford</a> you still have to build the trading dock, pay the workers, wait for the right trader, grow the goods for the trade, you're still in the hole, especially if you don't get DA's straight away.  (312*4)*6 = 1248*6 => 7488 just to get 2 of each off the ground, on a special order (if you decide not to wait), it's still a lot to outlay to get even a small group of pens running. 




I'll look into the stacks burners for future, but I haven't seemed to need to 'economy break' yet.

[estherhb]

When using <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> 1.75, the easiest way to get Domesticated Animals is to start with the Wild Shepherd who will "find" around 8 or so DA over a couple of years. Then use those to build a Stable. Of course, you'll need Oats or one of the other designated grains to "grow" your own DA.

[BuildHappy]

On 2/5/2017 at 11:17 AM, estherhb said:




I use Charcoal to produce Furnace Fuel and heat homes

ok, i have to ask - since i tried in-game and could not get it  to work - how do homes use charcoal?  i made a test city where i stopped firewood production as soon as i had charcoal production going strong.  there were a couple thousand charcoal available in stockpiles and markets, but with no firewood, all my houses started freezing (blue snowflake icons everywhere.) maybe i have a mod somewhere that breaks it for me?




i don't think the "no coal in homes" mod affects charcoal, but that's beside the point, as i do not have it installed anyhow...




besides some houses and deco, i use CCJ 1.75, <abbr title="MegaMod">MM</abbr> 0.07 and its deco, compatibility, maritimes, and NAT DIV. i also have the "more per SWILs" (more x per y, stone, wood, iron, and leather versions) but have only enabled for more wood per tree.




Mod order is good - everything shows up and works fine. My game is very stable and happy, and it makes me very happy too. but i cannot figure out why homes don't take my charcoal. no biggie, i am happy to make firewood forever. i am just curious...




[img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/mellow.png[/img]/emoticons/mellow@2x.png 2x" title=":|" width="20" />



 




 

[stiles]

i don't think houses use charcoal in the newer <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> mods.beyond that you may want to check on each modded house and then those that use charcoal place the above <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> in mod order.the new thatch from the NAT DIV mod is used by most houses as firewood also.

[estherhb]

In the <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> 1.7, homes can use Firewood or Charcoal (or Coke) for heating. A lot of us build a Stacks Burner ASAP so we can produce Charcoal instead of Firewood because you can produce 11 Charcoal per Log vs only 4 Firewood per Log.  I also use Charcoal to produce Furnace Fuel.  




In <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> 1.75, which uses the new Flags, both Charcoal and Firewood use the Fuel flag as does Coke (Furnace Fuel uses the Industrial Fuel Flag so it is not used in homes.)  




Not sure why your homes weren't using Charcoal.