Balancing and Tweaking MegaMod
#1


I have been playing Banished with the MegaMod and Colonial Charter 1.75, and it technically works great.  I love the vast variety of buildings that the MegaMod offers, but I have noticed that balance between similar buildings that originate from different mods can be a bit skewed in utility and it is hard to know what structures work best.




For example, a Medieval Kiln and a Brickworks can both make 3 Bricks at a time with educated workers (I’m not sure what their production is with uneducated workers), but the Medieval Kiln uses 10 Clay and 1 Firewood, while the Brickworks uses 13 Clay and 3 Furnace Fuel.  Other buildings have similar discrepancies.




Major considerations include:

• Recipes that produce the same items, such as in the example above concerning Bricks, should have similar (if not the same) cost and output, but may differ in production rate.  I think that the net trade-value of items produced by educated workers should always be greater than the trade-value of the resources consumed, where uneducated workers should produce quantities of items that are equal (or slightly less) in trade-value.

• Many buildings (and in particular homes) do not have balance in utility.  In general, qualities that make utility go up include: having more production options, higher production rate, larger family size, and positive effect on Happiness.  Qualities that make utility go down include: having higher cost to build, larger spatial footprint (discounting walkable areas), higher fuel consumption (for homes), and negative effect on Happiness.

• Some buildings require obscure materials compared to their counterparts.  For example, advanced Medieval buildings require Bricks and Roof Tiles, while advanced Colonial Charter buildings require Building Supplies, Homewares, and Fancy Homewares.  I would prefer all advanced buildings to require Building Supplies, Homewares, and Fancy Homewares.  Roof Tiles can be incorporated into a recipe for Building Supplies or simple removed for the sake of simplicity.

• I love that we can now see the positive (blue) and negative (red) radii of building effects, but it seems that not all production buildings that I would expect to have a positive or negative effect do.  The Roadless Well, Fort Well, and various statues lack positive radii, and many production buildings lack negative radii.  I think any production building that would create a lot of noise or smoke should have a negative effect on Happiness.  This would include most mines, quarries, saw mills, kilns, etc.

• Some of the Medieval production buildings employ Workers instead of Kilnmen, Potters, etc.  I think the ambiguous Worker job should be eliminated and such buildings should employ a more descriptive job.

• I love the idea of archeological buildings, but I think they should interact with Arrowheads and Native Artifacts in some way.  Maybe studying Stone or Clay can have a chance to produce Arrowheads or Native Artifacts instead of just Archeological Artefacts?

• The Tiny Quarry (and maybe other quarries or mines) should be made upgradeable in order to gain more resources.




In short, I would like to see some consistency between buildings’ relative utility.  I realize that this is a result of combining huge quantities of mods together that otherwise would probably work well in isolation or with the mods that they were intended to be combined with.  You guys have done a wonderful job combining them in a way where they all work together without introducing redundant materials.  I guess what I am saying is that I think the work isn’t quite done yet.




Could someone make a balancing mod (similar to a compatibility mod) that overwrites some of the values of these buildings to make them more balanced?  Or maybe (if this desire for balance is unanimous) make these changes in the next iteration of the MegaMod proper?


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#2

There's definitely a learning curve when you start to use MegaMod - especially if you haven't played with these mods individually beforehand.  Note that MegaMod is a compilation of over 100 standalone mods created by many different modders.  Those mods reflect the differences of the various creative and sometimes changing viewpoints of those modders. MegaMod assembles these mods together to assure they can be conveniently uploaded and won't crash when loaded together, but there is really no intention of rebalancing MegaMod as a whole or to eliminate the differences you've noted.  

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#3

Medieval Town mod is hard to accept when you only knew <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> ^^. sounds like all this crappy mod (medieval town) need to be put in the garbage cans ^^

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#4

Quote:
35 minutes ago, Ketchup said:




need to be put in the garbage cans




No one is saying that <abbr title="New Medieval Town">NMT</abbr> is *bad*, just that it's different. [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/smile.png[/img]/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x" title=":)" width="20" />

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#5

nooooo don't kill RED's mods. different players play different and have different ideas. simple solution is what modders always tell us: if you don't like a mod don't use it.  sure some people want the game to be harder.  but others play to expand and cover maps,some play to make nice looking cities. others might like to build several different villages or towns. not everyone's style is the same. this is the main reason for so many mods.that is also why banished is still playeed and popular. the freedom to play as we want not to follow rules and forced to play the same way as everyone else. i wasn't trying to cheat either. i use RED's brick maker because i like the llooks of it. plus i like the looks of the claypit. if i am playing to build a forest town, i like to use the dryer to make deer jerky. balancing a mod set  is not easy. balancing all the mods at once  would be crazy. and more players would be unhappy than happy with such an idea.

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#6

Quote:
9 hours ago, Ketchup said:




Medieval Town mod is hard to accept when you only knew <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> ^^. sounds like all this crappy mod (medieval town) need to be put in the garbage cans ^^




I really love Medieval Town.  I do want it to stay.  My point is that the balance of parts of it clash with Colonial Charter and other mods.  As estherhb put it,



Quote:
16 hours ago, estherhb said:




Those mods reflect the differences of the various creative and sometimes changing viewpoints of those modders.




 




stiles also makes a very good point.



Quote:
5 hours ago, stiles said:




different players play different and have different ideas.  ...  sure some people want the game to be harder.  but others play to expand and cover maps, some play to make nice looking cities. others might like to build several different villages or towns. not everyone's style is the same. this is the main reason for so many mods. that is also why banished is still playeed and popular. the freedom to play as we want not to follow rules and forced to play the same way as everyone else.  ...  balancing a mod set  is not easy. balancing all the mods at once  would be crazy. and more players would be unhappy than happy with such an idea.




That is why I suggested that the solution be to make a balancing mod similar to a compatibility mod, that way not everyone has to use it.  I don't think that having a fair and balanced play experience will detract from the ability to have an aesthetically pleasing town.  I love the expansive options that MegaMod offers.  I just want to be able to choose the buildings that I find aesthetically pleasing (and will do the job) without feeling like I am cheating when I utilize a building, or worse, feeling buyers-remorse when I find out that that magnificent castile I just exhausted my quarries and mines to build has no real purpose.  [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/sad.png[/img]/emoticons/sad@2x.png 2x" title=":(" width="20" />  I want to build what I like and have the game just work.




 




Maybe some of the more active modders can discuss and agree upon a rule set for balancing building utility in banished?  You can use the bullet points in the original post as guidelines to get started.



Quote:
5 hours ago, stiles said:




balancing a mod set  is not easy. balancing all the mods at once  would be crazy.




Maybe each mod creator could be responsible for making the balancing changes to their own mods.  That way the burden of work would be more manageable.




 




This could help the entire modding community create more compatible mods.  How can that be a bad thing?


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#7


yeah but part of the problem is have all of us "active moddlers" 100% adherate to the way <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> they decided to do things like : Charcoal, Furnace Fuel, Building Supplies, Homewares, and Fancy Homeware..... 




you call my "roof tiles" as obscure material. why it is "obscur ??" roof tiles have been used since thousands of years. so why obscur ? because <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> hasnt made it first before i did ?




why isnt the supplies, homewares and fancies arent THE obscure materials ? this is because you set, from the start, that <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> is THE only and unique "rule" and everyone that doesnt go the way <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> did (with their own obscure decisions), it automatically make them "THE" obscure moddlers.




 




all of us , "obscure" and "unknown"  moddlers we are making our best to make it "compatible" with <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> because we know more than half players use that mod. we know it.




and now, Do we need to "100% accept" all the "obscure chains" they [<abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr>] decided and not want to make our own way ? and denied all our own visions of things , of chains ?




 




Megamod is a huge project lead by <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/3-kralyerg/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="3" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/3-kralyerg/">@Kralyerg</a>. and it is the most huge task ever made in this game. it is already extremly hard to deal with all the billions of files, of things... yes "billions" !!!!




a huge mess of billion files put all together and he tries his best to make all these work together. (only him could do that!!) 




 




and following your mind, and what you've been asked, he needs to "delete" all the entities these mods have and redo all the templates these mods have and make them 100% assimilated like if they never existed outside "<abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr>" , deleting their "souls" and "their way to do things" because whatever hasnt been done first in "<abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr>" are obscure and need to be deleted.




 




A good part of the goal of this Megamod, was to integrate all the "other" visions the "other moddlers" had when they created their mods and SHARE it with people in one and unique MOD, the Mother Mod of all the mods [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/smile.png[/img]/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x" title=":)" width="20" /> 




 




Part of the goal was to SHARE all the "Entities" and "Souls"  all these mods have, and this is what is the most important.




but all i always says to <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/3-kralyerg/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="3" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/3-kralyerg/">@Kralyerg</a> : he has everything and he can do whatever he wants with these. i always 100% supported him. [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/smile.png[/img]/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x" title=":)" width="20" />

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#8

Quote:
22 minutes ago, Ketchup said:




Part of the goal was to SHARE all the "Entities" and "Souls"  all these mods have, and this is what is the most important.




Exactly.  


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#9


As a beginning modder myself, I didn't follow using CCs materials and some of their textures because I felt that <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> was the "correct" way to go, but because the Black Liquid crew was awesome enough to share their resources, time and skill with me as they have done with many of us. 




The fact that so many of the mods out there are compatible with <abbr title="Colonial Charter">CC</abbr> or use many of the same ingredients speaks to the amazing community we have established here, not CCs "correctness".  We have all built upon each other's work more often that not with the help and tutoring of those that were here before us.  <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/3183-ketchup/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="3183" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/3183-ketchup/">@Ketchup</a>, <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/5782-kid1293/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="5782" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/5782-kid1293/">@kid1293</a>, <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/5518-necora/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="5518" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/5518-necora/">@Necora</a>, all the Black Liquid guys ( <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/4-shockpuppet/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="4" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/4-shockpuppet/">@ShockPuppet</a> <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/3-kralyerg/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="3" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/3-kralyerg/">@Kralyerg</a> and <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/20-denis-de-la-rive/&do=hovercard" data-mentionid="20" href="<___base_url___>/index.php?/profile/20-denis-de-la-rive/">@Denis de la Rive</a> especially with me) have been indispensable in helping the whole modding community move forward in ways we never thought possible.   If you don't like someone's mod or someone's acsthetic fine... Don't use it. But talking a bunch of crap or disparaging someone elses work around here is not welcome.  


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#10


sometimes i wonder if statements come across that way because of a bad translation from 1 language to another.there are mods that can not be built unless you have rooftiles also. and those arenot included in the <abbr title="MegaMod">MM</abbr>.i agree it has to be a big job to put the <abbr title="MegaMod">MM</abbr> together without conflicts,or as few as there seems to be. i chose not to load the <abbr title="MegaMod">MM</abbr> but do have many of the individual mods.i always felt i would have less conflicts and more control of the mod order.




 PILGRIM where have you been ?? on strike????lol.you built the houses and then you disappeared like you ran away.it was a big task in such a short time.i was curious as to what you would do next. you did have good ideas to continue the set.




  RED,we like options. if the game throws us on flat ground and gives me an odd grain, can do stuff still. i have a root cellar and i have options to build mills before i get to lumber of mines. i bet the indians laughed at the white man when he asked where lowes home improvement was so he could build a house.columbus didn't land next to a nice iron mine either. and PILGRIM is still stuck with gray houses at plymouth rock before the indians told him how to make red dye and windows for his nice colonials. what century is this anyhow???




  just this year you all invented grass meadows.and poor NECORA iss till trying to learn how to skip rocks across the creeks(streams).maybe some day soon KRAYLERG will create the moon and sky for us.lol


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